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Fareed Zakaria GPS

News/Business. Foreign affairs and policies shaping the world.

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CNN

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01:00:00

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Annapolis, MD, USA

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mpeg2video

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720

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480

TOPIC FREQUENCY

China 23, Africa 13, Greece 11, Dominique Strauss-kahn 9, France 8, Europe 8, America 8, Zimbabwe 7, Us 7, Libya 6, Sudan 6, Beijing 6, United States 4, Simon Schama 4, Bernard 4, Doug 3, Fareed Zakaria 3, Tripoli 3, Dr. Ling 3, Schwab Mobile 3,
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  CNN    Fareed Zakaria GPS    News/Business. Foreign affairs  
   and policies shaping the world.  

    July 10, 2011
    1:00 - 2:00pm EDT  

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the united states, "fareed zakaria: gps." this is gps, the global public square. welcome to all our viewers in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria. we have a wonderful show for you today. first up, the dominique strauss-kahn case has made it clear that things are seen very differently on the two sides of the atlantic ocean. we have a great transoceanic panel to talk about that and much more. bernard-henri levy, simon schama, and others. then, why hollywood can't make much money in china. we'll explain. next, which continent has six of the ten fastest growing economies? which continent has the world's newest nation? we'll it will you what you need to know about all this. first, here's my take. i've been hearing a lot of criticism recently that president obama doesn't have a
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consistent policy toward the arab spring, but i wanted to ask, should he? there are vast differences between the circumstances on the ground in tunisia, egypt, libya, saudi arabia, between american interests in those countries and our capacity to influence events there. some places are more stable, the regimes are more reformist, others are not. should we have a one-size-fits-all foreign policy? take the case where american interests and values most starkly collide -- saudi arabia. will the administration start clamoring for regime change in riyadh, and would that encourage large-scale protests and instability within the kingdom, the price of oil would skyrocket. meanwhile, the saudi regime which has legitimacy, power and lots of cash that it is spending, would likely endure, only now it would be enraged at washington. so what exactly would a more
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consistent middle eastern policy achieve? in libya, the administration continue fronted a potential humanitarian crisis that could be averted using airpower. in addition, gadhafi's domestic opposition, the arab league, the yags, and key european allies all urged international action. few of these conditions apply in syria, where the regime is more firmly in control and more brutal. while i wish president obama would voice his preference that president bashir al asad should resign, it is worth noting that the same critics who want obama to save us also criticize him for calling for moammar gadhafi's ouster when he doesn't have the means to make it happen, or perhaps they want us to interview in syria as well, which would mean we would be engaged in four wars, but at least we would be consistent. in the early years of the cold war, the brilliant and then controversial secretary of state dean acheson was asked by a
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congressman why the united states was trying to militarily defeat communist forces in greece but being much more cautious in china. acheson's reply was they were two different countries. i am not in the slightest bit worried because you can say so-and-so about greece, why isn't that true about china? i will be polite, i will be patient, and i will try to explain why greece is not china. it's still true. greece is not china. let's get started. so in light of the dominique strauss-kahn case we wanted to explore how different or laws and morals are different than europe in america. for us to talk about it, a terrific panel from both sides of the pond. across the atlantic in nice, france, is french philosopher
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bernard-henri levy. sitting with me but hailing from the united kingdom is columbia university's simon schama, and representing the americas, i suppose, bret stephens is "the wall street journal's" foreign affairs columnist, and krista freeland is global editor at large at reuters. welcome to all of you. bernard henri-levy, i'm going to start with you because you have been a prom negligent participant in the whole affair dsk. there's a column in "new york times" which says, describing your writings on these issues --
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>> you are in nice and happy to be there, but what would you say to this columnist? >> what i tell him, first off, that i love america. i'm a defender of america. i so often explain that anti-americanism is a sort of form of fascism, and that i hate sometimes the way in which america is cartooned, and sometimes by itself. the image of the justice which was given in the first days of this affair was a cartoon image. it was not america. it was not the justice -- the judicial system which was praised so highly and which he exhibited as a model for the whole world. for somebody like me who likes america as much as france, it
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was heartbreaking. when i said that, i did not defend my friend dominique strauss-kahn. i defend the idea which i have of justice in general and of american justice in particular. >> but let me ask you -- again nocera says i don't see what vance did wrong. >> what he did bad was to consider from the very first minute, without having heard the world, the voice of dominique strauss-kahn that he was a guilty one. what he did run was offer him to the whole world as a sort of
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beast, as a sort of perv, as a sort of criminal by essence and substance. the jail, the shame, the public humiliation, the leaks organized to the tabloid press presenting the facts in a complicated, diggs torted way, this, the district of france, did it badly. what he does now, which is to leave the two parties free and to fact check, to double-cross the information, to try to understand what really happened in this suite, this is right, and this is has been a crime. it has been a rape or an attempt of rape. it is a big crime, and it will have to be punished. >> simon schama, in his column at "the daily beast," bernard
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henri-levy said this is like ropes spear. you wrote a book on the french revolution. do you think there's any -- >> i can understand bernard's passion about that, but as we know, the guillotine was the conclusion of that. that's not exactly what happened to dominique strauss-kahn. what i wanted to say to bernard and the discussion is that much of what he says i share, but i think it boils down to this kind of very lurid relationship between the tabloid press and the nature of criminal prosecution, spectacular. criminal prosecution or criminal apprehension, potential criminal apprehension, as a kind of public spectacle. >> like the casey anthony trial. >> yes. exactly. there is something in american public life, actually, which assumes it not to be problematic, actually, to make it a show before any guilt is necessarily proven.
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>> you have this tendency, also in france, and it was even more severe and as severe concerning france than america. you have this tendency to mix show and justice. when you show the lawyer of the maid expressing himself, having a sort of savage press conference on the stairs of the court and describing in such a graphic way the most intimate parts of the body of his client, this was not only graphic, it was pornographic. maybe strauss-kahn raped. maybe we'll see, the lawyer will say. but this day he sort of committed a symbolic rape. you cannot speak of a woman in such a rude way, coming again to the parts of the body and so on, this way of giving a theater show for all the press all over the world. this was really problematic.
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>> none of you have mentioned something, the thing that actually angered me the most about how dominique strauss-kahn was treated, and actually mostly the media treatment, which i think is something quite characteristic of america and i hope europe doesn't import, which is the confusion of promiscuity with sexual assault. what i really didn't like was in the early stories of dominique strauss-kahn, people talking about, he's had affairs. i don't think that's relevant. i think it's so important for women and feminists to take a very firm stand on saying a person's personal sexual ethics have no bearing whatsoever on wrongdoing and on criminal activity. why this is so important is it used to be the case we would say it wasn't possible for a woman to be raped or assaulted if she was loose or had affairs or slept around, and equally just because a man has affairs which dominique strauss-kahn was
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known to do, it doesn't mean we should assume he's more likely to rape someone. >> you wrote in your column, the guy's a sleaze and he probably did it. >> no, i didn't. >> what did you say? >> i was inclined to think that and i reproached myself for having that thought. we like our news -- >> you ended by saying he's probably a sleaze. >> he is probably a sleaze, and there's a lot of information to testify to that which is not in dispute, including sleeping with chamber maids in new york city hotels and his affair for which he was repry manhandled by the imf and a long trail of stories emerging from his past in france. but krista is entirely right. being a sleaze is not the same as being a criminal. our problem here, which i think is universal, not just an american one, is is that we like our news to have the quality of a parable. here there was a parable, whatever your political persuasion happened to be. if you were a fem mist the of a certain point of view, it was as
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chrystia says, this is a guy that's a sexual rogue and mens must be a rapist. if you had a right of center persuasion, you didn't like strauss-kahn, or french socialists or the lending policies of the imf, there was a sense of delight that this guy had been if you would super his first-class seat and sent to rikers island in the best american tradition. it all came together to convict the man before anyone -- most of us, including myself -- had ask some commonsense questions, not the least of which does this make sense for him to do? and were the details known to us merely from the very beginning of the trial, did they correspond to the idea that a sexual assault had actually taken place? i think it happens more in the case of dsk. i think it's pervasive how we make news judgments about different stories. we mistake anecdote for data. that's what we did here.
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there were anecdotes by dsk, and we suggested this led inescapably to a conclusion. we forget that stories in life and in history tend to be crooked. hold that thought, bret. we're going to leave the dsk business, but with one footnote that we need to remember. rape charges are still pending against domenique strauss can. the panel will stick around. when we come back, greece, libya, and much else. [ male announcer ] megared omega-3 krill oil from schiff.
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we are back, talking about everything other than dominique strauss-kahn, since we did that for the last segment, with bernard-henri levy from france, simon schama, bret stephens and chrystia freeland. berna bernard, let me ask you -- you're in france right now. what is the mood in europe with regard to greece? is there a sense this is one more week of crisis and they will somehow muddle along, or is there a more fundamental fear to put it bluntly, that the
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european project is falling apart? >> i think that is the risk and that is the concern, of course. we had the feeling, us europeans, that we could sleep, and during our sleep europe was flourishing and blooming. we're discovering that this is not the case, that europe might not be in the sense of history, that europe might destroy itself as much as build itself. we are discovering that it is a frail and fragile project. it does not mean it's in the process of being broken, but it means that if we don't act quickly and strongly probably we will go back 50 years backward. it would be very bad for the free world, including, of course, america. >> chrystia, you understand the finances of this better than most.
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the problem is, i understand all the politics, the math doesn't add up at some level. greece simply cannot pay back its loans. what's going to happen? >> right. i think part of the problem is you have had the nationalization of the mistakes of french and german banks. >> who loaned greeks money? >> who made a huge mistake in lending the greek government money, but now you're having that debt being backstopped. the problem is greece is a small country. the reason the markets keep on rejecting the solution is, even if the solution works, the result is the economy getting weaker and weaker. >> do you think the greeks are correct to riot? >> i was about to say, that's why we see the greeks on the street. they're saying, we get this. and we do not want our economy, our children, the next 10, 15 years to be doomed to subpar growth. that, you know, if there isn't a
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new solution, which i think there's going to have to be, that's the result of the current deal. >> i'm not so sure i support the greeks rioting in the streets. think you're right, the austerity is toxic for the future, but the greeks are protesting a set of social protections, which are completely out of step with what their country can afford and with any notion of what a growing economy can reasonably meet. hugely bloated public sector, unions, entitlements, retirement ages that kick in very early and last lifetimes and often beyond lifetimes, i think europe has a growth problem. it has a public sector/union problem. if these problems aren't addressed in places like spain, france or even now in germany despite the growth they have enjoyed in the last few years, they're going to be in terrible -- in terrible straits. that's the real danger to the european project, its economic growth, pure and simple.
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>> ultimately the greeks are in a vanguard of people that have been placed in a imperial receivership from berlin and paris and brussels. and the issue is, actually, we shouldn't underestimate it, the profound wounds to the dignity and self-esteem of an entire people when that happens can have correspondingly traumatic and alarming nationalist consequences. >> i want to move beyond greece, as well. but i want to ask bret something because you said something about the austerity measures backfiring in greece because they are cutting spending, they're resulting in slower growth that is causing more debt problems. you can imagine where this is going. >> you're already mistaken, but go ahead. >> when an economy is fragile, if you cut a lot of spending, you're going to turn this economy into a downward spiral. >> it's the raising taxes which is problematic. >> but the tightening. they both have the same effect.
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they take money out of the economy. yet what the republican party wants to do with the american economy is cut $4 trillion out of the spending. out of the economy. won't that put the united states in a similar situation where the economy starts contracting? >> what greece needs is a combination of a pro-growth agenda unless government and social welfare bloat. i'm not sure where that doesn't jive the right of center thinking is saying here in the united states. i mean, look, the problem with austerity, pure and simple, which doesn't have a corresponding growth component, is that it creates a -- it creates a politically dissatisfied class but doesn't solve your basic economic issues. so how do the greeks get their growth back? i mean, when did they last have it? >> i want to go to libya, because bernard, you have many
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contacts in libya and you've been active there. i want to ask you, does the libyan opposition feel hopeful? there are some signs they are moving closer to tripoli, standing up in more impressive ways, that they're getting aid, but how do they feel? >> i think they feel more optimistic than a few weeks ago. you know, freedom takes time. we all know that in europe and america, freedom, democracy takes time. it took a few weeks. it took 100 days for these people who never had a weapon in their hand to transform themselves in an operative and executive army. at the beginning, they had -- i saw them. i was in braga. i was in misrata a knew weeks ago. at the beginning they were
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without discipline, without training, but with bravery and courage. now this army is formed, and in misrata, what i saw which was so impressive, and which is maybe unprecedented in modern history, is an army of civilians kicking out of the city, driving out of the city 100 or 150 tanks. armored tanks. they did that more or less without -- or before the help of nato and of the french and english helicopters. and this is really amazing. that is why i believe this army of citizens of misrata joined with the army of the south, the two armies which are probably able today to walk to tripoli in the next weeks, maybe a little more. but my feeling from the ground of which i am back since a few, ten days, my feeling is you have
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today two real arabic armies which are able to liberate and to free tripoli. >> simon, what do you think? >> well, it's very heartening to hear bernard deliver that report, actually. that's my hope. i think in the next few days congress is going to debate the authorization to continue forces in libya, american participation in the nato operation. i would be really aghast if an isolationist move took hold in either party, as a matter of fact. i'm someone who has no regrets about the operation. i certainly hope we don't falter now, when it looks as though it might be on the brink of success. >> a stunning and impressive performance by a lot of leading republicans who, out of some combination of political opportunism and a new mood of isolationism, can't seem to come to the perfectly obvious conclusion that gadhafi has been
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an enemy of the united states for 40 years, that he's got the blood of hundreds of americans on his hands, that we used to hate him when reagan was bombing tripoli and benghazi, and that our expedition is in the interest of his regime. rather than carping at the president and raising the war powers act, which is something that republicans, including newt gingrich, tried to get rid of 15, 20 years ago. so i'm worried about the thinking of the republican party when it comes to our broader engagement with the wider world and when it comes to the application of force to get rid of enemies and advance the cause of freedom. >> and the thing that i think is so important to remember is a democratic revolution, no matter what, is a great thing. a couple weeks ago george soros gave a speech in budapest. talking about the arab spring, he said 1956 in hungary was a failure at the time but it was a success in the long term because
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it sowed the seeds for what we have today. you have to have that longer-term view on where america is losing it. >> chrystia freeland, bret stevens, simon, bernard-henri le levy, thank you very much. we will be back. introducing the schwab mobile app. it's schwab at your fingertips wherever, whenever you want. one log in lets you monitor all of your balances and transfer between accounts, so your money can move as fast as you do. check out your portfolio, track the market with live updates. and execute trades anywhere and anytime the inspiration hits you. even deposit checks right from your phone. just take a picture, hit deposit and you're done. open an account today and put schwab mobile to work for you.
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now for our "what in the world" segment. it is the perfect summer blockbuster for audiences around the world. action packed and not too taxing on the brain. the new "transformers" movie broke the record for july 4th tickets sales in the u.s., and it's been smashing records in many of the 110 countries around the world where it's showing. it's already made half a billion dollars worldwide. but there's one country that it's not playing in -- china. china doesn't want its people to see "transformers 3," at least not yet. can you believe it? beijing has imposed a moratorium on new foreign films. for almost a month, no new blockbusters produced outside china have been released in china. why? instead of "transformers" or
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harry potter, beijing really wants its people to watch something else, something quite different. the beginning of the great revival released last month, an extravagantly produced state-sponsored propaganda movie which cost $12 million, a fortune to make by chinese standards. the film claims to have a cost of more than 100 top chinese actors playing an array of historical characters. among them mao tse-tung, or chairman mao, portrayed not just as a revolutionary but as a romantic. while that may lure in female audiences, the real message isn't about love but about olympics. the film is released to honor the 90th anniversary of the party's founding. it describes the party's influence as having led china down a glorious path of economic
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independence, liberation, national wealth and strength. no mention of the great leap forward, the famine, the cultural revolution, or of course tiananmen square. the chinese communist party has made sure this movie will be seen by its people. it's released beginning of "the great revival" in more than 6,000 theaters accompanied with massive publicity. the government expects to to make over $130 million, twice as much as its last propaganda flick, "the founding of the republic." it's also gotten major chinese corporations to rent out theaters and give employees tickets. watching the film is mandatory for school children and so on. what do people think of the movie? well, the ratings on chinese web sites have mysteriously been disabled, but if imdb.com is any indicator, the film scored a 2 out of 10 rating, which is pretty darn poor.
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china's control over its movie industry actually raises much larger issues. studio heads in los angeles salivate over the thought of china's 1.3 billion citizens turning into hollywood film buffs. there is already great interest in going to the movies in china. china is said to be building two new movie theaters every day. but the chinese government is not allowing market forces to determine who watches what movies. you see, even when there's no blackout or moratorium, china allows only a limited number of foreign films in its theaters every year, about 20, and even those aer subject to strict censorship. when the films are allowed in, foreign film studios are still stiffed. they reportedly get only 20% of chinese ticket revenues, much less than they get anywhere else in the world. and of course there is massive piracy of dvds, which the chinese government does little to prevent. china's attitude towards foreign movies is troubling because it
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points in two directions. first, beijing appears to be adopting a policy that favors log companies over international ones, even if it deprives the chinese consumer of choice, quality, and equality. businessmen from around the world in various industries have been complaining about said practices, many of which are potential violations of free trade and of china's treaty obligations. second, beijing seems to be turning in a nationalist direction, consciously promoting propaganda, keeping out foreign influences, all to create greater solidarity at home and legitimacy for the communist party. these are worrying tendencies which would cause friction between china and the world, and they are a reversal of china's outward orientation over the last three decades, a orientation that's powered china's rise to wealth and prosperity, but there is some good news. i like one strategy that china is employing to promote its own movies.
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>> 38 -- >> you've probably hard of kung fu panda. the sequel is out around the world, as every parent knows, and doing especially well in china. beijing is hoping to counter hollywood's success with the release this month of its own animated action flick. ♪ "legend of a rabbit," the film is about a kung fu bunny, who takes on a big mean bad enemy. the enemy is a panda. that's a fair fight, and may the best animal win. and we'll be right back. we cover planes that crash, and i'm afraid that in that kind of reporting we miss a lot of the background success in so much of africa.
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i'm fredricka whitfield. here's an update of some of the top stories we're following. president obama and a bipartisan group of congressional leaders will meet at the white house tonight. they will try to get the derailed deficit talks back on track. negotiations broke down yesterday over republicans' refusal to consider tax hikes as part of the plan. and the final edition of "the news of the world" was published today. the 168-year-old british newspaper has been closed after outrage over a report that it hacked the phones of a missing teenager and politicians. owner rupert murdoch arrived in london today in a bid to limit
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damage to the rest of his media empire. and the shuttle "atlantis" arrives at the international space station one last time a short time ago. the astronauts were welcomed aboard by the station's current crew. they have brought along a year's worth of supplies, and it's going to take them about a week to unload all of it. join me for more news at the top of the hour. back to "fareed zakaria: gps" in a moment. >> okay. put your thinking caps on far moment. which continent has six of the world's ten fastest growing economies? which continent is projected to have the world's third largest city by population in just a few years? which continue nen has the world's newest nation? if you picked asia, that's wrong. one more question might help you get the answer. which continent has seven of the top ten failed states in the world? the continent, of course, is africa.
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that's what i want to talk to my two terrific guests about. nicholas kristof and peter godwin, african-born author and reporter. both are just back from africa. peter has a new book out called "the fear." about zimbabwe. you're back from a trip where you take a college student across africa. is it fair to say for the first time -- there's always been failed states that tended to be from africa, but is it fair to say you see an africa on the move, countries like angola, mozambique, ghana growing and there's a spirit of optimism? >> there's definitely a sense of growth, and i think more people are waking up to that. part of it is we're seeing more countries that are success stories and more countries trying to emulate those successes. one of the problems i think we have in journalism is that we, you know, we cover planes that crash, so we covered those failed states as problems. i'm afraid that in that kind of
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reporting we miss a lot of the background success in so much of africa. >> do you think -- we'll get to zimbabwe in a second. but do you think -- does zimbabwe look at what's going on in africa, the stirring of the continent, and feel even more beknighted? does it feel like i can't believe -- you know, finally africa is taking off and we -- once the breadbasket of africa, we're totally dysfunctional? >> i think certainly they look at the arab spring ruefully and think, why not us? in a sense they tried it in 2000 and has been trying it ever since. the big difference i think we often overlook when we examine the arab spring and why did it happen when it happened is that the success in various countries -- tunisia, egypt -- has depended on the reaction of security forces. and in zimbabwe, you won't be able to put primrose down the barrel of a soldier's gun because it will meet a bullet on the way out.
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so, yes, i think there's some frustration that their peace process seems to be stalled. >> but when you talk about the optimism, it was mostly economic optimism. is it also political? >> it's also political. i think about half of the continent now has some form of quasi-democratic elections. which is a huge step up. we're seeing more accountability, more of a civil society in certain places. internet is bringing that. so you have that political advance, an economic advance and huge improvement in health care, in nutrition, and in mortality. >> peter, there will be 27 elections in africa this year. are most of them phony? >> it's said it's not who votes, but who counts the votes. i think across the whole spectrum, many of imperfect, but what you need to look at is
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where incumbents lose. that's still relatively rare. that's because you know you've had some sort of fairness in election. and in zimbabwe's case, that didn't -- that wasn't the case. i'm just back from south africa and having witnessed local elections, a free and fair election, it wasn't perfect but it was real democracy at work. it's astonishing, and for me particularly from zimbabwe, it's something to celebrate. >> what i'm struck by is you talk to businessmen now and they've gotten very interested in africa. in africa -- i was in nigeria, kenya -- there's a kind of new class of businessmen, even in nigeria. young, western educated often, and they seem to be stirring things up. >> and they're also pushing in the right direction on issues like corruption. there's real outrage that does seem to be creating modest steps better. and just, you know, we're -- on
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my first trip to africa, i backpacked across the continent. what i found was river blindness, these elderly or middle-aged people who have been blind, and it left me with a bad taste for west africa. this time, you go around, you just don't see that nearly to the same degree, because river blindness has been almost conquered. there's so many other diseases like that. you get a sense of, if you have a long enough time frame of dramatic change. we're going to talk more about africa when we come back, and specifically the possibility of a war of huge international crisis with south sudan. will it happen? we'll come back. [ doug ] i got to figure this out. ♪ [ dr. ling ] i want to spend more time with my patients. [ jim ] i need to build a new app for the sales team in beijing.
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[ mrs. davis ] i need to make science as exciting as a video game. ♪ [ jim ] i need to push out a software upgrade. [ dr. ling ] review ms. cooper's history. [ doug ] i need to cut i.t. costs. [ mrs. davis ] i need to find a way to break through. [ jim ] i need to see my family while they're still awake. [ dr. ling ] see if the blood work is ready. [ doug ] i need to think about something else when i run. ♪ [ male announcer ] every day, we set out to do more than the day before. at dell, everything we do, from solutions to services, gives you the power to do just that. ♪ so i.t. professionals can be more productive... business leaders, more innovative... doctors can be more connected to patients... and teachers have the power to make a difference. dell. the power to do more. and teachers have the power to make a difference. ♪ fare thee well ♪ farewell
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♪ mr. gloom be on your way ♪ ♪ though you haven't any money you can still be bright and sunny ♪ ♪ sing polly wolly doodle all the day ♪
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♪ hah
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the world has just welcomed a new country into its fold, a country called south sudan, the first new country that's been created in africa since e rhett rea in 1993. what does the future hold for it? we're back with nicholas kristof of "new york times" and peter godwin, both just back from the continent. peter, was there concern when you were talking to people in south africa whether there might be a war in sudan? >> yes, i think there has been a lot of concern. the truth is many of the issues that still need to be resolved have simply been put off until after the weekend. and so there are a bunch of issues that have just been put to one side. i do think, though, and it's difficult to keep up, i mean, there are seven different rebel groups in the south. i mean, you know, attacking the sbla. never mind north/south stuff.
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there's so much too to try and figure out. but at the end of the day, the truth is about 75% of the oil reserves, which the south is 75 reserves which the south is overwhelmingly reliant on are in the south. all pipe lines go through the north. at the end of the day, neither north or south has got an appetite to actually go to war, that's my hope. >> do you think it has been a mistake to indict bashir the president of sudan because there's an argument that goes we're trying to get the -- the government of sudan seems to be determined to do whatever it can to hold on to as much of the oil revenues it can. by inindicting him you give him no exit strategy. he knows the minute he leaves the office of the president of sudan he'll end up in the hague with a war crimes trial. >> i can see an argument that it
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makes more difficult to have bash ir retire somewhere else but at the end, he has a long history of doing extraordinarily nasty things that preceded the document and he's continued it. i don't think it improved his behavior but i don't think it worsened it. i also think there is something to be said for creating norms of how leaders behave and creating some type of accountability so they know if they massacre people, that there may be consequences. and so on balance i think it was indeed the right move but it has made it more difficult to deal with sudan right now. >> would you like to see robert mugabe indicted? >> in the short term, the war crimes issue has -- can create a lure of unintended consequences but we're doing is something long term, you know what, ydo these things, you're not immune.
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doesn't matter whether your local enemies give you amnesty. in the medium and long term, i think that's a goal that's really worth going for. certainly in sim bob way we've seen that after the violence in 2008 where there was torture on an industrial scale. everyone i've spoken for, the prosecutors and investigators and people at the u.n. and icc pretty much agree that what happened in zimbabwe in 2008 rose to the level of crimes against humanity. nothing has happened. there are all sorts of problems as and inconsistences as to who ends up in front of the hague and who doesn't. there's a big sensitivity at the icc itself that it doesn't start to look like a club that indicts black politicians or black leaders. you know, they are very
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sensitive about that at the moment too. >> do you think that one of the things that has held back or perhaps put it another way, you can imagine even more progress if you had a couple of great big role models, nigeria and south africa, traditionally seen as a mess, things are modestly improving there but south africa is the great disappoint. it has not been able to play a leadership role in pushing progressive change. >> one of great reasons for africa being on a whole disappointing has been bad governance, if you have to come up with a single exaggeration, it exaggerates it but it goes to the failures more than anything else. and bad governance is contagious and leaps from one country to the next. in asia we saw how this success of a few small economies then spread and influenced china in
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term which influenced india which may be influencing pakistan. that same pattern may be beginning to happen in africa as we have some real success stories in other countries thinking if rwanda can do it, why can't we? >> we'll have to leave it at that. thank you very much. we will be right back. >> if i can finish now -- oh, yes, why don't you meow when i woman does that. between accoun, so your money can move as fast as you do. check out your portfolio, track the market with live updates. and execute trades anywhere and anytime the inspiration hits you. even deposit checks right from your phone. just take a picture, hit deposit and you're done. open an account today and put schwab mobile to work for you.
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canada pulled the last of the combat troops out of afghanistan this week. this brings us to our question of the week. how many nations still have combat troops in afghanistan as part of the international security assistance force?
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is it a, 6, b, 16, c, 26 or d 46. stay tuned and we'll tell you the correct answer. go to cnn.com/gps for ten more questions. while you're there, make sure you check out our website, the global public square where you'll find smart interviews and essays and takes by our favorite experts. you will also find all of our gps shows. if you miss one, you can click and watch. don't forget, you can follow us on twitter and facebook. this week's book of the week is the last narco. it takes you deep inside the life of a man known as elchapo now that bin laden is dead, this mexican drug king pin is the number one most wanted man in the world. he's also on forbes list of the world top billionaires, it's a fascinating look at the man, the operation and international hunt for him. very well written. and now for the last look.
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we often think our politicians are always bickering. well it might make you feel better to look at the case of australia where it seems lawmakers have been fighting like cats and dogs. >> this is prepared -- >> if i can finish now -- >> [ meow [. >> yes, why don't you meow when a woman does that. >> that was from a senator from taz mania trying to interrupt a statement by the first openly gay cabinet member penny wong, she gave her own back. >> the blakes are allowed to yell and you make that comment, it's school yard politics, right? >> this isn't a unique restaurant, it's gotten so bad the prime minister has called on legislators to

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